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Hi Stefan,

can you provide a list of missed turns? After how many missed turns CPlayer will take over?

Quapla

can you provide a list of missed turns? After how many missed turns CPlayer will take over?

There's a "History" button on top of the game page. Or use this link.

There is no automatic CPlayer. I was hoping the ranking penalty was enough incentive to do the turns :-). (Was there a CPlayer on PlanetsServer? I don't recall any.) I normally watch the games start and send nice reminders but it seems I missed the time for this one.

--Stefan

Quapla in List of missed turn:

can you provide a list of missed turns? After how many missed turns CPlayer will take over?

There's a "History" button on top of the game page. Or use this link.

There is no automatic CPlayer. I was hoping the ranking penalty was enough incentive to do the turns :-). (Was there a CPlayer on PlanetsServer? I don't recall any.) I normally watch the games start and send nice reminders but it seems I missed the time for this one.

--Stefan

Hello together, I do not like C-Player. They are so weak, esp. against Privateer and Crystal. This 2 "ship stealing races" can get so powerfull with C-player enemys.... So I think "no player" is much better than any "C-Player" I know. Additional: What I not liked on http://www.high-command.net was that there was a C-Player ignoring alliance status and Admin was not able to solve the problem. I propose that Stefan choose the (from my point of view) only usefull option and drop the players from a game after x missed turns without using C-Player. X may be 3 or 5 or depending from runtime of the game. 1 missed turn in the first 3 turns, 3 missed turns in the first 15 and 5 after turn 15. Let us say not turns in a row, completly in runtime of the game. Users dropped may be replayced by another Human player till turn 40. After turn 40 let the race die in each case. Ok, that is what I am thinking about this. May be Stefan will think something else or want to ask first another User. If he want to ask another User, then better in a global forum and not in a discussion for only one game like in this case "Titan 1".

Question is what to do with players dropped automaticly from x games for not making turns. Ok, no problem if it was a already weak race with (hmmm) let us say a score of 1% or less. But with stronger races?

Let us see what another player in this game think (and write in the next days) about this and find a fast solution for this game. A general solution may come after a discussion in a general forum.

Bye Alexander

Get än bestuet, da get än veruet; sterft än, da get än gelueft.

I do not like C-Player. They are so weak, esp. against Privateer and Crystal. This 2 "ship stealing races" can get so powerfull with C-player enemys.... So I think "no player" is much better than any "C-Player" I know. Additional: What I not liked on http://www.high-command.net was that there was a C-Player ignoring alliance status and Admin was not able to solve the problem. I propose that Stefan choose the (from my point of view) only usefull option and drop the players from a game after x missed turns without using C-Player.

What I had in mind was not a C-Player, but a really simple damage control program: give them some safe-tax, maye load ships with fuel, or possibly even run PCC2 auto tasks. These are the things that make trouble when you accidentally miss a turn.

X may be 3 or 5 or depending from runtime of the game. 1 missed turn in the first 3 turns, 3 missed turns in the first 15 and 5 after turn 15. Let us say not turns in a row, completly in runtime of the game. Users dropped may be replayced by another Human player till turn 40. After turn 40 let the race die in each case.

"Over lifetime of the game" means there is no way to ever correct a past mistake. I would go for a "in a row" scheme.

I'm not sure whether I'd want to let a race die (as in "killrace"). This probably increases the disruption.

--

For this game, I had sent notifications to the four missing players, but so far not got any response.

I can take them out of the game (=make the slots open for join as replacement to increase the chance of turn submission) if you wish.

--Stefan

Hello!

X may be 3 or 5 or depending from runtime of the game. 1 missed turn in the first 3 turns, 3 missed turns in the first 15 and 5 after turn 15. Let us say not turns in a row, completly in runtime of the game. Users dropped may be replayced by another Human player till turn 40. After turn 40 let the race die in each case.

"Over lifetime of the game" means there is no way to ever correct a past mistake. I would go for a "in a row" scheme.

You are the admin!

I'm not sure whether I'd want to let a race die (as in "killrace"). This probably increases the disruption.

Right, with let the race die I was also thinking about the race will die when nobody play the race. Killrace would not be a let the race die, killrace would be a "kill the race".

I can take them out of the game (=make the slots open for join as replacement to increase the chance of turn submission) if you wish.

From my point of view ok. If they want to play again and they are fast enougth they can join again. If a another player is faster, he/she will join faster.

Hi,

if I may join again. :)

CPlayer is no alternative. It plays way too bad.

In my opinion, if a player wants to quit he misses 5 turns in row - after that this race should be killraced. No Cplayer, no joins - just remove - if possible remove the planets as well ;)

So the neighbours will have the less advantage.

And in addition: If a player quits this way he should be banned.

Quapla

Hi,

if I may join again. :)

CPlayer is no alternative. It plays way too bad.

Right, so Stefan (Admin), you and I think the same about C-Player.

In my opinion, if a player wants to quit he misses 5 turns in row -

This would mean a player misses the first 4 turns, make one turn, miss again 4..... No, after sleeping one night, I am much more thinking this can not be the right solution. Stefan (Admin) wrote:

"Over lifetime of the game" means there is no way to ever correct a past mistake. I would go for a "in a row" scheme.

I do not see it so, a player missing to much turns in NOT a row is also a problem. For his race and so also for the complete game. And he/she can correct the mistakes with making and uploading each following *.trn.

after that this race should be killraced. No Cplayer, no joins - just remove - if possible remove the planets as well ;)

So the neighbours will have the less advantage.

But they may has a big disadvantage. Not only the Crystal who may has trapped a lot of ship he/she only has to collect. Imagine a another enemy, prepared for a offensive war to get more and better planets, PBP, capturing freighters and/or terraformer and/or GA-Ships and/or.... After the leader of a defending race has seen the big fleet he/she does not upload another turns and the owner of the fleet can take 6 planets and capture 3 freighter till killrace including removing planrets. A really big disadvantage after sending a big fleet.

What would be a option, is to set a not played race to self destruction. To High-Tax, disassemble ships turn for turn.... "Just some scripts" that destroy a race with options given in game. Nothing you need to be host. Just self destruction *.trn. But to create such a script would be more work for the admin.

Or does you want to create this scripts and send them to Stefan?

And in addition: If a player quits this way he should be banned.

No! He can come back with a another user. So to bann a player is no solution and it would be really

means there is no way to ever correct a past mistake".

And see it so, a user you can see he/she often .... you can calculate. A new user you can not calculate.

Bye Alexander

Get än bestuet, da get än veruet; sterft än, da get än gelueft.

PS.: How does you want to handle the advantage a race has if a neighbour race was never played? Never uploaded a *.trn never scouted a planets! Does you want to remove all the planets you think this race has surely scouted before any another. Or remove planets you think this race may be able to scout faster or....

Well Alexander, you are right in most points.

But I want to disagree in some points:

Most players I know want to quit a game (no time, fear to loose, no fun, other ineterst etc pp). He misses his turns in a row, then a weak CPlayer comes in and spoils the game. He cuts alliances, plays radomly, it's more annoying than a real threat.

Very rare players miss turns, play, miss again and so on. If so this is a weak player and will be eaten by othets soon. So i think these players are not the problem. You can always have luck with your neighbour ;)

If a player quits this will always be desastrous for the game. Esp. the neighbours can profit a lot. So it will be mostty fair to reduce this advantage. Any player can find a new enemy easily. Even Crystal ;)

So i want to remove the ships, this will distribute the slots to the remaining players, and not only to the neighbours. I think very fair. Well, the planets will be undefended, not a big problem at the beginning. At the end the neighbours will have again some advanteges, this may lead into new wars, maybe.

Steffen

PS. VGAP has never been a fair and well balanced game ;))

Quapla in Re: List of missed turn:

In my opinion, if a player wants to quit he misses 5 turns in row -

This would mean a player misses the first 4 turns, make one turn, miss again 4..... No, after sleeping one night, I am much more thinking this can not be the right solution.

Does that happen? (Other than by people who explicitly try to game the system.)

What I see happening more likely is that people miss turn 15 due to a problem with their computer, turn 20 because they're on a business trip, turn 43 and 44 due to an illness. Should they now be kicked out of the game if they miss turn 61 because their boss ordered them to work overtime this day?

I would still call that a reliable player. It took me a while to come up with the reliability formula as it is now. It allows to forget yesterday's sins. An unreliable player can become reliably by playing a game with 100% turn rate. And a formerly reliable player can become unreliable by missing turns ("900 of 1000 turns submitted" nominally is a 90% turn rate, but if that means 100 turns missed in THIS game it's bad).

I don't want to give up that ability with a kick-on-turn-miss rule.

I plan on having "reliable players only" games, like PlanetsServer had, but I'm not yet sure how to actually implement these and what the rules would be.

streu in Re: List of missed turn:

"Over lifetime of the game" means there is no way to ever correct a past mistake. I would go for a "in a row" scheme.

I do not see it so, a player missing to much turns in NOT a row is also a problem. For his race and so also for the complete game. And he/she can correct the mistakes with making and uploading each following *.trn.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume most missed turns are by accident. See http://planetscentral.com/host/game.cgi/1-First-Steps/turnhistory, e.g. Cylons or Privateers. (Note that "First Steps" was announced as play-it-or-not game, missing turns was "permitted".)

What would be a option, is to set a not played race to self destruction. To High-Tax, disassemble ships turn for turn.... "Just some scripts" that destroy a race with options given in game. Nothing you need to be host. Just self destruction *.trn. But to create such a script would be more work for the admin.

Or does you want to create this scripts and send them to Stefan?

You could probably ask ten people to get twelve answers for this problem. I will consider everything you send me that is technically possible to implement on the server. But I doubt we can come to a conclusion how phasing-out a race could look like. Personally, I consider an empire that sits there stalled a good compromise between giving neighbours stuff and having the neighbours pay a little (e.g. battle starbases). Self-destruction could make it too easy.

Quapla in Re: List of missed turn:

And in addition: If a player quits this way he should be banned.

No! He can come back with a another user. So to bann a player is no solution and it would be really

Yep. Better allow to keep a user account and correct mistakes, than tempt them to "cheat" by making a new user account.

--Stefan

Hello Quapla!

Any player can find a new enemy easily. Even Crystal ;)

Right, but the race lost resources to move ships to this enemy. Resources does not only mean fuel, also this ships can better be used against another races. Same for the Torp and feighter and ... moved for this war.

So do you want to give a race a disadvantage for a succesfully war?

So i want to remove the ships, this will distribute the slots to the remaining players, and not only to the neighbours.

Ok, write a PCC2 script that set ships a race is owning to self-destruct. With a option to set only x% of the ships per turn to self destruct. I think 10% per turn would be a good value. Same for Planets, but without the need to set a %-value. On this way the slots are not getting free at one. Ships without fuel or so dammaged in space that they can not move can not be set to self destruct (Ok, GD-Ship with one fuel left can "pop" in space). To delete the SBs from game data is also no usefull proposal. May be one race was prepared to take them with SSD or dropping Clans or...

PS. VGAP has never been a fair and well balanced game ;))

Right, but here is a lot of options in the settings. Ever played with 50% Rob-Failure and no Loki? I played and was winning as Privateer. Or activated Mines desroy Web? I played 2. In one of them, after only 3 races left I made a proposal that we should declare Crystal to winner as I not longer wanted to play against this Crystal. Crystal and Bird was thinking that this game has still some options, but Crystal accepted and so this game ended with a Crystal winner.

In P-Host are even more options. So if you think there is a to weak race, make a proposal. If you think there is a to strong race, make a proposal and be the first playing this race with some less powerfull settings.

Bye Alexander

Get än bestuet, da get än veruet; sterft än, da get än gelueft.

Ps: So now I has to hurry, as I has just seen that my nearly ready turn was not for the current "Pleiades 1" host. :-/